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Richard Lynch (lynch@lscorp.com)
Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:22:47 -0600 

Message-Id: <v02140b0fb13b1a8c92ba@[207.152.64.133]>
From: lynch@lscorp.com (Richard Lynch)
Subject: Best mSQL ISP Synopsis [LONG]
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:22:47 -0600

Once upon a time, not so long ago, I asked for opinions on ISPs with a
strong mSQL support staff, and suggested that folks e-mail me direct, and I
would summarize.

Well, here's what everybody said, uncut and unedited. :-)

Actually I cut out the big copies of what I said in the first place, and
overly long sigs, and PGP crap, and MIME crap, etc. You're welcome. :-)

Apologies for any duplicates already sent to the whole list, but I *DID*
say send 'em to me and I'll summarize...

I would consider designing an mSQL providers database, if I could find an
mSQL host that would be willing to make a deal... especially since of the
ISPs recommended here, there were none that met all my personal criteria:

+ Services/Price page for Virtual Servers with mSQL that I could
understand. If I can't even figure out what you offer for how much from
your corporate content page, you lose.

+ A reasonable setup fee and monthly charge. Setup fees over $100 or
monthly charges over $50 are just ridiculous, IMHO. Setup fees should be
closer to $50, and monthly closer to $30 or even $20.

+ Clear demonstration or sufficient verifiable experience of working with mSQL.

+ Lag time to connect to their server to read their prices/services page.
Even if it's not the best way to measure it, the bottom line is, if I can't
connect quick and easy to fix a page or a script, the service is not
useful.

Any ISP that really wants to Walk The Walk and not just Talk The Talk is
encouraged to volunteer an "mSQL ISP database website", and to host my
chatmusic.com site at a 'discount' price. I'll do the pages and scripts,
you just do the hosting and give me some way to admin the databases.

If two or more ISPs volunteer, I'll set them up to contain exact duplicate
data, scripts, and pages. And *THEN* we'll see who's the best mSQL ISP.
:-)

And now... without further ado... the responses:

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bruce Rhodewalt" <kahuna@tikipub.com>

I doubt if mine is the best, but they're okay. If you don't get any other
worthy responses, try them: http://www.bhcom.com/

They're great in general, and so mSQL works fine. They don't specialize in
mSQL, though.

Bruce

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From: Aaron Weiman <aweiman@erols.com>

Richard,

I am not using an ISP for my mSQL service, they are just a web hosting
provider. Their name is iperweb (http://www.iperweb.com). They offer
50mgs of space and other goodies. You get the first month free with
them. For 50mgs a year, its $120. Which is outrageously low. But, I
have had exceptional service with them. I strongly urge you to check
them out.

Hope this helps!

Aaron

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DAS <artlore@sirius.com>

ed here.

Cronos.net has a dedicated dual-pentium pro running a customized unix
red hat linux environment with a streamlined apache. two hops from mae
west-t-1 on t-3 group...way under capacity..fully supported msql and
mysql..guy knows his stuff..friendly as hell...

webmaster@cronos.net

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From: Nigel Reed(Non-HP) <nigelr@nelgin.rsn.hp.com>

Why not ask your ISP for a shell account and install it yourself?

To get a refund, and if mSQL was advertised but not available, then
that would be selling services which dont exist. I would threaten
to sue him.

I know an attorney or two that I could put you in touch with who
might be willing to write a letter for you.

Regards
Nigel

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From: "Steeves, Mike" <MiSteeves@nbpower.com>

>I'm soliciting recommendations for the "best mSQL ISP". Not just some guy
>that installed mSQL once, but one that actually stays on top of it, and
>that really has their server tuned up to optimize mSQL.

Take a look at web2010.com. They have good prices, and seem to know
what they are doing with MSQL. I'm still in the learning stage, but
they have some decent tutorial which make me think that they have a good
handle on it -- it is also one of their big selling point.

I have a few concerns with data transfer speeds, but that is partly due
to my being located quite a few hops away.

>Budgetary constraints are also critical in my case, but I'm willing to
>collate answers for the more general needs. The more hard info you can
>give me about an ISP, the better.

I'm afraid I can't get any better info than their web page has, but so
far I'm satisfied.

>
>PS What's the best way to get a refund out of this guy?

beg, plead, cajole, threaten, sue. If that doesn't work give up.

michael

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From: Brian Jepson <bjepson@ids.net>

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Richard Lynch wrote:

> Hello. My ISP advertised mSQL and has been promising it for 2 months now.
> He has yet to deliver. :-( Apparently he's been having trouble
> installing on his shiny new box... I'm out of time, so I'm dumping him.
>

Richard,

Do you think there is a great demand for an ISP that supports mSQL? The
reason I ask is that I've been pricing out 56k-384k lines in my area, and
one way that I feel I could justify the expense would be to offer web
hosting services with database (specifically mSQL, but perhaps others)
support. What sort of bandwidth do you think would be reasonable for this
sort of project, and what services would you want to see on the machine?

I'd like to hear what you would want to see in terms of pricing, as well.
I figure I'd probably offer the following, at least at first:

  telnet access (no dialup)
  Mini SQL 2.0.x and 1.0.16
  Latest Perl
  Apache, probably with mod_perl and mod_php
  Either Linux or Solaris OS with 64 MB RAM.
  Virtual hosting

The machine would be connected at 384k and if it were a SPARC, it would
probably be a SPARC 5 (85 MHZ) or SPARC 10 (1 or 2 SM51 CPUs). If it were
an intel machine, it would be a Pentium Pro.

For the most part, I want to be able to cover the costs of this highspeed
line - it would be hosting my own stuff as well as any customer, and would
probably be in my house. I would intend it to be high availability, and
provide safeguards against downtime.

> I'm soliciting recommendations for the "best mSQL ISP". Not just some guy
> that installed mSQL once, but one that actually stays on top of it, and
> that really has their server tuned up to optimize mSQL.
>

I think I could supply this - I an an experienced Solaris and Linux admin,
and I co-wrote the Mini SQL 2.0 Sourcebook along with Bambi. I've also
authored a number of other books related to Internet development, and I
have extensive work experience in this area.

> Since I'm sure this list doesn't want to see a bizillion responses, please
> e-mail me direct, and I'll collate them and summarize for the list.
>
> Budgetary constraints are also critical in my case, but I'm willing to
> collate answers for the more general needs. The more hard info you can
> give me about an ISP, the better.
>
> Thank you.
>
> PS What's the best way to get a refund out of this guy?
>

Hmmm. That's a good question - has he refused to give you a refund?

Anyhow, let me know what you think - seeing that there is some demand in
this area is very encouraging.

Regards,

Brian Jepson * (bjepson@ids.net) * http://users.ids.net/~bjepson

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From: <slee@Ile-Maurice.Com>

On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Richard Lynch wrote:

> Hello. My ISP advertised mSQL and has been promising it for 2 months now.
> He has yet to deliver. :-( Apparently he's been having trouble
> installing on his shiny new box... I'm out of time, so I'm dumping him.
>

 pair Networks : http://www.pair.com
 It's real value for money.

 mSQL on FreeBSD. They'll soon shift the mSQL off the web servers for a
 pool of dedicated mSQL/MySQL servers.

 -- Stephane Lee Chip Hing

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: X-Sender: jkugler@209.142.0.3

http://www.infoboard.com $40/month
http://www.alabanza.com/hosting.html $33/month if paid yearly

Joshua J. Kugler
Computer Consultant--Web Developer
jkugler@inreach.com
http://www.cwebpages.com/jkugler
My Peace comes from my relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

X-Sender: jmr@mail1.suresite.com

Mr. Lynch,

Our web hosting division, SureSite, offers mSQL as part of our web hosting
packages. Our URL is http://www.suresite.com.

I have personally written several mSQL-based applications for our clients,
and we use it to manage some of our administrative files.

If you have any questions, please call me at 800-848-4638.

John Ridge
Infinite Systems
(InfiNet Internet Access, SureSite Web Hosting)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reply-To: <wjones@fireblazer.com>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

My service offers mSQL. http://www.onehop.com

- -- Wes A. Jones
- -- http://www.fireblazer.com
- -- http://www.onehop.com
- -- (800) 771-2671

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Fabian Rodriguez" <MagicFab@bigfoot.com>

Hello,

Although we are short on proof of good service or even functioning mSQL
sites, www.digiweb.com is the one we have chosen after months of searching.

They are very cheap, their www site shows off (which we think a good
indication of their quality) and we know at least one of their client
(www.webdepart.com) that gave us good references.

We sent our cheque yesterday and should be online in a week or so, and we
have about 8 applications running mSQL which you can review at
j1k2r1.home.ml.org/bottin for example.

Maybe we can get in touch when we get the thing running at our new domain
address.

Let me know if I can be of any assistance.

Fabian Rodriguez
President, Exocom Communications

 -=[ Staff J1K2R1 ]=-
Sherbrooke, QC, Canada - http://MagicFab.home.ml.org
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Visitez le eZine branché de Sherbrooke http://j1k2r1.home.ml.org

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mpolsen@gte.net

Richard,

I am currently using NetLimited for hosting services. They offer mSQL on
most of their packages. I have not had any problems with them yet, (re:
mSQL) and they support scripting languages such as w3-mSQL, PHP, cgi,
... for front end purposes. You have to desgin the table stucture for
you database and front-end access as well. Check them out at
www.netlimited.net And yes mSQL is up and running.

Good Luck,
Mark Polsen

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: webmaster@rede.com

On 17 Mar 98 at 13:07, Richard Lynch wrote:

> Hello. My ISP advertised mSQL and has been promising it for 2

Check out

http://www.iserver.com/

I have been with them for 2 years (after going through 4 other
hosts).

They are very, very good. Always moving and improving. Look at
their website.

> PS What's the best way to get a refund out of this guy?

Good question. No idea though.
 _________________________________________________________
Peter J. Schoenster webmaster@rede.com
Exercise Your Brain..Read a Book http://www.rede.com/
             Free CGI Scripts and Applications
           http://www.rede.com/samples/index.html

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 20:18:58 -0500
From: mike dibella <mdibella@mediaone.net>
Reply-To: mdibella@mediaone.net
Organization: none
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: lynch@lscorp.com
Subject: Re: Best mSQL ISP

Richard Lynch wrote:
>
> Hello. My ISP advertised mSQL and has been promising it for 2 months now.
> He has yet to deliver. :-( Apparently he's been having trouble
> installing on his shiny new box... I'm out of time, so I'm dumping him.
>
> I'm soliciting recommendations for the "best mSQL ISP". Not just some guy
> that installed mSQL once, but one that actually stays on top of it, and
> that really has their server tuned up to optimize mSQL.
>
> Since I'm sure this list doesn't want to see a bizillion responses, please
> e-mail me direct, and I'll collate them and summarize for the list.
>
> Budgetary constraints are also critical in my case, but I'm willing to
> collate answers for the more general needs. The more hard info you can
> give me about an ISP, the better.

go with minerva.net -- they really know what the deal is-- and helped me
out alot-
they are pretty inexpensive and fast too!

cu
mike

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From: Stewart F Flood Jr <sff@ops2.awod.com>

I noticed you comment about your ISP not being able to get mSQL running on
their system, and your need for a new ISP.

Unfortunately, we are a bit distant from you, way down here in Charleston,
but we've had a significant amount of experience with mSQL (I even run it
on my portable that I carry home at night).

We handle quite a number of web accounts that are generated entirely by
Perl scripts using mSQL databases. For example, while it is no longer
hosted at our site, we designed and wrote the current version of Piggly
Wiggly's web site (www.thepig.net). Unfortunately, the marketing
company handling Piggly Wiggly seems to think that they can become an ISP
and they moved the site to their own server. The only reason that I
mentioned this is that even their system administrator managed to get mSQL
running.

We also host the National Golf Course Owners Association, (www.ngcoa.com
as well as www.ngcoa.org), Harrell Farms (www.harrellfarms.com), Sticky
Fingers (www.stickyfingers.net WATCH OUT don't go to .com by mistake as it
is a porn site), as well as a number of other sites that are all active
page generation using mSQL.

If your system requires using a local ISP in Chicago, we won't be able to
help you. If your site does not need to reside locally we have a
significant amount of experience.

Stewart F Flood, Jr
CEO, A World of Difference Inc.
Charleston, SC
(803)769-4488 (area code changing to 843 March 22, 1998)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

NOTE: The following e-mail has been copyrighted. Inclusion here is not
intended to in any way impinge on that copyright. Apologies to Mr. Langenberg
if this notice is considered insufficient.

From: "Chuck Langenberg" <Chuck@Langenberg.Com>

>I'm soliciting recommendations for the "best mSQL ISP".

Richard:

This Email is in response to your posting on the MSQL
mailing list. Thank you for this opportunity to respond.
First of all, let me apologize for the length of this document.
However, there were a lot of issues that I thought needed
to be covered. I'm taking this very seriously. As I too have
noticed a few ISPs talking the talk, but not walking the
walk in the MSQL arena. With that said, onward...

We have the following programs installed at Langenberg.Com:

1. The latest release (2.0.3) of the MSQL data base.
2. The latest release of W3-MSQL/Lite to access MSQL
   data bases.
3. Release 2 of PHP to access MSQL data bases. We will
   install PHP release 3 once it's out of beta. We do not load
   beta software on production machines.
4. We will soon demonstrate Perl 5 access to MSQL data
   bases.

The setup and license fees (if applicable) for these products is
included with each V100 account. Please click on the URLs
below to run the demo programs. Note that these demos are
installed on the user's account along with the software. Feel
free to enter bogus records into the databases as a
demonstration. And mangle things up to your heart's delight.

PHP Demos:

http://www.langenberg.com/cgi-bin/php.cgi/php/examples/demo_main.html
http://www.langenberg.com/cgi-bin/php.cgi/php/examples/url_main.html

Note that these two applications would run "much" faster
if data base logging were turned off. We will demonstrate
this performance advantage by the end of Mar-98.

W3-MSQL/Lite Demo:

http://www.langenberg.com/cgi-bin/w3-msql/bookmarks/bookmarks.html

In your Email you made the comment, "Not just some guy
that installed mSQL once...". Here is my response. We sell
space on numerous servers with a no more than 80 V100
accounts on each. The reason that our uptime is so high is
that we practice a revolutionary concept -- known as testing.
Applications are "beat up and abused" on test servers before
they are installed onto production servers. This may deprive
a few hard cores of some "fun". But most people seem to
appreciate it. We're not always first with a feature. But we're
never far behind, and we're pretty darn dependable. I think
this is what you might have meant when you mentioned
someone that will "stay on top of it".

We have two account plans available. However because
of security issues, only the more powerful V100 account
is available for those doing database, Perl 5, or CGI
development.

As you'll see when you visit http://www.Langenberg.Com/
we focus primarily on YourCompany.Com sites. We include
up to 1 hour of toll free phone support and/or account
maintenance per month with each account. Additional
support is available for an extra fee.

Our toll free support is available on all products and
services that we offer, including MSQL, Lite, and PHP. We
are not geared up at this time to support actual language
development. However, we are able to support the
"environment" that these products "live" in. And we will
demonstrate that these products are functional using
sample programs and scripts -- upon installation and
afterwards if necessary.

By the way, that's my name on the top of each web page.
This is certainly an incentive to insure that there are no links
to "zombie" database screens which don't work. I highly
suspect that you've noticed this trend as you've surfed
various database sites.

Here are some of the more notable features that are
included with the V100 account:

1. Telnet access allows you add FTP and Email accounts
   whenever you want. You can have us do this for you,
   or call us up and we'll walk you through it. You can create
   "hard" limits on the amount of disk space that each
   FTP login or Email box can consume. For example,
   you could create a user with 5MB of Email space and
   no FTP access. Or 3MB of Email plus 48MB FTP/Web
   space. Or no Email and 9MB of FTP. Or any combination
   you want, for as many users as you have the disk space
   for. You can even "overbook" disk space. Just keep an
   eye out so that your "actual" disk consumption doesn't
   exceed your "total" allocated space.
2. An FTP site which "answers" to ftp.YourCompany.Com.
   You can optionally create an "incoming" directory
   which anyone can upload to -- but can't see the
   contents of. For an example of this just upload a small
   test file to ftp://ftp.langenberg.com and then try to view
   it.
3. Telnet also allows you to "talk" to MSQL from the
   command line using; msql, relshow, msqladmin,
   msqldump, msqlimport, and msqlexport. These
   commands are very reliable and professionally
   programmed. And personally, I feel that Telnet
   access is highly desirable and almost mandatory for
   anyone who is serious about MSQL.
4. Full access to the CGI bin. For example, you could
   rename "php.cgi" to "php" or just "p". You can also
   create your own Perl scripts or modify existing ones
   such as "comments.pl". And while we do not provide
   the ability to compile C programs (such as MSQL) we do
   stay current with the latest release of these programs.
5. The ability to subhost up to 20 YourCompany.Com
   domains on the same account. There is a one time
   setup fee for each subhosted domain, and no monthly
   fee after that. All domains, Email accounts, and FTP
   logins share the same 100mb of disk space. Extra
   disk space is available. Different users can maintain
   different domains. However, for security reasons,
   only one person should be doing database, Perl5 or
   CGI development for all subhosted domains within
   any given V100 account.
6. Everybody says their performance is good, so I realize
   that this is a tired old line. But ours performance
   really "is" good. To verify this I'd invite you to "beat up"
   our site for a few days at different times of the day.
   I think you will find that our "availability" is right up there
   also. For example, I just entered "uptime" from the Telnet
   command line. Here is the reply; "2:01PM up 49 days,
   7:04, 3 users, load averages: 0.08, 0.04, 0.01". The
   "3 users" means 3 Telnet users were accessing the
   system at that time. And the system has been online
   for 49 consecutive days.

The V100 account is a great deal if you want phone support,
"power" access, and need more than one domain or require
multiple mailboxes.

I would very much appreciate it if you'd include Langenberg
when you "collate and summarize for the (msql mailing) list".

Thanks for your time. Please surf and "beat up" our site. We
would appreciate your feedback -- especially if you encounter
any problems. And please call us at 888-272-6569 or
206-244-4754 with any questions that you may have.

Warm regards,
Chuck Langenberg
Chuck@Langenberg.Com
http://www.Langenberg.Com/

PS: Oh and by the way, Happy St. Patricks Day, Mr. Lynch.

PPS: After I wrote this, and before I sent it off I surfed some
of the sites you've developed on the net. I noticed that you've
got some MSQL applications running out there. And from the
sounds of your original Email, you weren't exactly thrilled with
your last provider. So I'd like to extend this offer. If you surf
Langenberg.Com and are sold..... And the only thing it will take
is absolute proof that your applications will run before moving
here..... We can create a demo account langenberg.com/lynch
We won't be able to offer the ability to FTP upload to the http
area or Telnet access--as we have "critical" apps running on
subhosted accounts and as I indicated earlier in this Email it
would be a security risk. I'm sure we can get whatever you've got
running in a minimum of time. Also, noting that you've developed
so many sites, the V100 account might be of interest to you
since you can subhost up to 20 domains.

PPPS: Richard, feel free to borrow a handful of phrases from
this Email (with attribution) for the summarization that you
referred to. However, please consider this Email as
copyrighted material. It's going to become a web page at
Langenberg.Com. I sincerely hope that you'll understand.

Copyright (C) 1998 Chuck Langenberg Company

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas <tlooi@aracnet.net>

Hi Richard

The ISP I work for runs mSQL and it is available to our corporate customers.
We have a pretty good stabile system and there are at least 3 people who look
after the mSQL databases. If you are interested, check out the web site
"www.aracnet.net" and/or email "www.aracnet.net" and/or email sales@aracnet.net.

Thomas

------------------------------------------------------------------------- 

--

--
-- "TANSTAAFL" Rich lynch@lscorp.com